May 3, 2013
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: Let’s turn to Jason Collins, this is the sports star that came out. You tweeted this: “So Jason Collins is a hero because he’s gay? Our standard of heroism has dropped quite a bit since Normandy. Why such a cheap shot against a guy who did a pretty great thing?
BEN SHAPIRO, BREITBART NEWS: I don’t think it’s a cheap shot. Heroism is defined by willingness to sacrifice — and willingness to take a real personal risk in favor of a noble, larger goal. This may be a noble, larger goal but I’m not sure it’s a great personal risk.
MORGAN: He’s the first male American athlete to come out as gay, while still playing.
SHAPRIO: Martina Navratilova came out in 1981, that was three years before I was born.
MORGAN: I said “male.”
SHAPIRO: Let me ask you something, Piers. Why do hate Americans so much, that you think this is such a homophobic country, that when Jason Collins comes out it is the biggest deal in the history of humanity? President Obama has to personally call him to congratulate him.
MORGAN: Why do I hate America so much?
SHAPIRO: That you think that America is such a homophobic country.
MORGAN: I think you may be homophobic simply because you said, “Why is Jason Collins a hero simply because he’s gay?” Why sneer at a guy for coming out when he’s being courageous?
SHAPRIO: I’m sneering at him for coming out, I’m just —
MORGAN: Aren’t you the one being homophobic?
SHAPIRO: I don’t think it’s homophobic to simply say that we’re apathetic about people’s personal lives.
MORGAN: You’re the one who things your government is going to invade and attack you, which is a very anti-American sentiment.
SHAPIRO: I don’t think my government is going to do that.
MORGAN: You think this guy isn’t brave because he came out.
SHAPIRO: I think that America is a fundamentally good place, Piers. The fact is this: You’re British and a lot of folks have said that we should send you back because you’re British. You come on here every night and speak in a British accent. That doesn’t make you a hero, that makes you being who you are.
MORGAN: I never claimed to be a hero.
SHAPIRO: I understand, I wear a yarmulke on TV, right? There’s a lot of anti-Semitism, there are people who are killed and anti-Semitic attacks. You know, per capita, as many hate crimes against Jews as as against gays in this country. America is not an anti-Semitic country and I’m not a hero for wearing a yarmulke. Being who you are in 2013 America is what America is about. It is not heroic to be who you are publicly. I’m glad for Jason Collins if it makes him feel like he’s going to have a happier life now. But, it does not make him a hero to be who you are because America is not a homophobic country.
MORGAN: You know what, Ben? Come off it.
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